AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

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AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

Thomas.Herchenroeder
>   erl -noshell -run hello run -run erlang halt

Ah, yes. I had been playing with something like '-run kernel halt'.

Now the process terminates on my Windows Erlang 5.0.2, but doesn't print anything! (I had to replace the -run flag with the older -s flag). It works as expected on the Linux Erlang 5.3.6.3. I guess I have to upgrade my Windows version :-).

>   http://www.erlang.se/publications/packages.html
>   http://www.it.uu.se/research/reports/2000-001

Now this is interesting! I looked through the Erlang book, the "Erlang Extensions since 4.4" and the most current "Erlang Reference Manual version 5.3" - no mentioning of packages. Is this something like a (nearly) "undocumented feature"?
 
=Thomas
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AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

Chris Pressey
On Sun, 15 Aug 2004 10:39:37 +0200
<Thomas.Herchenroeder> wrote:

> >   erl -noshell -run hello run -run erlang halt
>
> Ah, yes. I had been playing with something like '-run kernel halt'.
>
> Now the process terminates on my Windows Erlang 5.0.2, but doesn't
> print anything! (I had to replace the -run flag with the older -s
> flag). It works as expected on the Linux Erlang 5.3.6.3. I guess I
> have to upgrade my Windows version :-).

If memory serves, you (still?) have to use '-run init stop' on Windows
to give the emulator time to shut down.  Killing it immediately with
'-run erlang halt' discards the output buffer :/

-Chris


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AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

Richard Carlsson-4
In reply to this post by Thomas.Herchenroeder
Thomas.Herchenroeder wrote:

>  >   http://www.erlang.se/publications/packages.html
>  >   http://www.it.uu.se/research/reports/2000-001
>
> Now this is interesting! I looked through the Erlang book, the "Erlang
> Extensions since 4.4" and the most current "Erlang Reference Manual
> version 5.3" - no mentioning of packages. Is this something like a
> (nearly) "undocumented feature"?

"Nearly undocumented" is pretty much correct. It is only announced
in the "Release Highlights" section of the R9 documentation.

Note that the tech report from 2000 was just the first draft of
what the package system could look like. It does not describe the
implementation. The first link above is the one to use for reference.

        /Richard


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AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

Eric Newhuis
We tried this feature and it caused problems.

Either due to our then lack of Erlang finesse or actual limitations the
packaging causes problems with OTP.

Can anyone comment on that?  Maybe it has been brought up before.  Now where
is that mailling list archive search button....


On 8/16/04 2:41 AM, "Richard Carlsson" <richardc> wrote:

> Thomas.Herchenroeder wrote:
>
>>>   http://www.erlang.se/publications/packages.html
>>>   http://www.it.uu.se/research/reports/2000-001
>>
>> Now this is interesting! I looked through the Erlang book, the "Erlang
>> Extensions since 4.4" and the most current "Erlang Reference Manual
>> version 5.3" - no mentioning of packages. Is this something like a
>> (nearly) "undocumented feature"?
>
> "Nearly undocumented" is pretty much correct. It is only announced
> in the "Release Highlights" section of the R9 documentation.
>
> Note that the tech report from 2000 was just the first draft of
> what the package system could look like. It does not describe the
> implementation. The first link above is the one to use for reference.
>
> /Richard

Eric Newhuis
Chief Technology Officer
FutureSource
630.649.9619 Mobile
630.792.2065 Office
630.792.2600 Fax
enewhuis
http://www.ifuturesource.com

FutureSource | Futures Solutions. Now.

The information contained in this e-mail message is legally privileged and
confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
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AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

Richard Carlsson-4

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Eric Newhuis wrote:

> We tried this feature and it caused problems.
>
> Either due to our then lack of Erlang finesse or actual limitations the
> packaging causes problems with OTP.

Can you describe these problems in a bit more detail, please?

> Can anyone comment on that?  Maybe it has been brought up before.
> Now where is that mailling list archive search button....

The only real problem that I know about has to do with the debugger,
which has its own hard-coded ideas about how a module looks and
where it should be found.

        /Richard

> On 8/16/04 2:41 AM, "Richard Carlsson" <richardc> wrote:
>
> > Thomas.Herchenroeder wrote:
> >
> >>>   http://www.erlang.se/publications/packages.html
> >>>   http://www.it.uu.se/research/reports/2000-001
> >>
> >> Now this is interesting! I looked through the Erlang book, the "Erlang
> >> Extensions since 4.4" and the most current "Erlang Reference Manual
> >> version 5.3" - no mentioning of packages. Is this something like a
> >> (nearly) "undocumented feature"?
> >
> > "Nearly undocumented" is pretty much correct. It is only announced
> > in the "Release Highlights" section of the R9 documentation.
> >
> > Note that the tech report from 2000 was just the first draft of
> > what the package system could look like. It does not describe the
> > implementation. The first link above is the one to use for reference.
> >
> > /Richard
>
> Eric Newhuis
> Chief Technology Officer
> FutureSource
> 630.649.9619 Mobile
> 630.792.2065 Office
> 630.792.2600 Fax
> enewhuis
> http://www.ifuturesource.com
>
> FutureSource | Futures Solutions. Now.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message is legally privileged and
> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
> entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
> copy of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e mail
> in error, please contact the sender and immediately delete the original
> message. Thank you.
>
>
>

Richard Carlsson (richardc)   (This space intentionally left blank.)
E-mail: Richard.Carlsson WWW: http://user.it.uu.se/~richardc/
 "Having users is like optimization: the wise course is to delay it."
   -- Paul Graham


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AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

Eric Newhuis
If memory serves me correctly we had trouble passing off some module names
to some OTP modules that liked to use the {M,F,A} "callback" idiom.

But there may have been some problems with some 3rd party tools as well.

And we inherited a build system from someone and it did not like the dots
either.

Sorry I cannot recall any specifics.



On 8/16/04 7:25 AM, "Richard Carlsson" <richardc> wrote:

>
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Eric Newhuis wrote:
>
>> We tried this feature and it caused problems.
>>
>> Either due to our then lack of Erlang finesse or actual limitations the
>> packaging causes problems with OTP.
>
> Can you describe these problems in a bit more detail, please?
>
>> Can anyone comment on that?  Maybe it has been brought up before.
>> Now where is that mailling list archive search button....
>
> The only real problem that I know about has to do with the debugger,
> which has its own hard-coded ideas about how a module looks and
> where it should be found.
>
> /Richard
>
>> On 8/16/04 2:41 AM, "Richard Carlsson" <richardc> wrote:
>>
>>> Thomas.Herchenroeder wrote:
>>>
>>>>>   http://www.erlang.se/publications/packages.html
>>>>>   http://www.it.uu.se/research/reports/2000-001
>>>>
>>>> Now this is interesting! I looked through the Erlang book, the "Erlang
>>>> Extensions since 4.4" and the most current "Erlang Reference Manual
>>>> version 5.3" - no mentioning of packages. Is this something like a
>>>> (nearly) "undocumented feature"?
>>>
>>> "Nearly undocumented" is pretty much correct. It is only announced
>>> in the "Release Highlights" section of the R9 documentation.
>>>
>>> Note that the tech report from 2000 was just the first draft of
>>> what the package system could look like. It does not describe the
>>> implementation. The first link above is the one to use for reference.
>>>
>>> /Richard
>>
>> Eric Newhuis
>> Chief Technology Officer
>> FutureSource
>> 630.649.9619 Mobile
>> 630.792.2065 Office
>> 630.792.2600 Fax
>> enewhuis
>> http://www.ifuturesource.com
>>
>> FutureSource | Futures Solutions. Now.
>>
>> The information contained in this e-mail message is legally privileged and
>> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
>> entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended
>> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
>> copy of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e mail
>> in error, please contact the sender and immediately delete the original
>> message. Thank you.
>>
>>
>>
>
> Richard Carlsson (richardc)   (This space intentionally left blank.)
> E-mail: Richard.Carlsson WWW: http://user.it.uu.se/~richardc/
>  "Having users is like optimization: the wise course is to delay it."
>    -- Paul Graham

Eric Newhuis
Chief Technology Officer
FutureSource
630.649.9619 Mobile
630.792.2065 Office
630.792.2600 Fax
enewhuis
http://www.ifuturesource.com

FutureSource | Futures Solutions. Now.

The information contained in this e-mail message is legally privileged and
confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
copy of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e mail
in error, please contact the sender and immediately delete the original
message. Thank you.




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AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

Richard Carlsson-4

On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Eric Newhuis wrote:

> If memory serves me correctly we had trouble passing off some module names
> to some OTP modules that liked to use the {M,F,A} "callback" idiom.

As long as you used ?MODULE to pass the (full) module names, it should
work with callbacks as well.

> But there may have been some problems with some 3rd party tools as well.
>
> And we inherited a build system from someone and it did not like the dots
> either.

Yes, build systems usually make a lot of assumptions. It would be nice
if someone who knows Erlang build systems well and also has an interest
in packages (*coughulfwiger*) could present a good build strategy. :-)

        /Richard


> Sorry I cannot recall any specifics.
>
>
>
> On 8/16/04 7:25 AM, "Richard Carlsson" <richardc> wrote:
>
> >
> > On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Eric Newhuis wrote:
> >
> >> We tried this feature and it caused problems.
> >>
> >> Either due to our then lack of Erlang finesse or actual limitations the
> >> packaging causes problems with OTP.
> >
> > Can you describe these problems in a bit more detail, please?
> >
> >> Can anyone comment on that?  Maybe it has been brought up before.
> >> Now where is that mailling list archive search button....
> >
> > The only real problem that I know about has to do with the debugger,
> > which has its own hard-coded ideas about how a module looks and
> > where it should be found.
> >
> > /Richard
> >
> >> On 8/16/04 2:41 AM, "Richard Carlsson" <richardc> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thomas.Herchenroeder wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>>   http://www.erlang.se/publications/packages.html
> >>>>>   http://www.it.uu.se/research/reports/2000-001
> >>>>
> >>>> Now this is interesting! I looked through the Erlang book, the "Erlang
> >>>> Extensions since 4.4" and the most current "Erlang Reference Manual
> >>>> version 5.3" - no mentioning of packages. Is this something like a
> >>>> (nearly) "undocumented feature"?
> >>>
> >>> "Nearly undocumented" is pretty much correct. It is only announced
> >>> in the "Release Highlights" section of the R9 documentation.
> >>>
> >>> Note that the tech report from 2000 was just the first draft of
> >>> what the package system could look like. It does not describe the
> >>> implementation. The first link above is the one to use for reference.
> >>>
> >>> /Richard
> >>
> >> Eric Newhuis
> >> Chief Technology Officer
> >> FutureSource
> >> 630.649.9619 Mobile
> >> 630.792.2065 Office
> >> 630.792.2600 Fax
> >> enewhuis
> >> http://www.ifuturesource.com
> >>
> >> FutureSource | Futures Solutions. Now.
> >>
> >> The information contained in this e-mail message is legally privileged and
> >> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
> >> entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended
> >> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
> >> copy of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e mail
> >> in error, please contact the sender and immediately delete the original
> >> message. Thank you.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> > Richard Carlsson (richardc)   (This space intentionally left blank.)
> > E-mail: Richard.Carlsson WWW: http://user.it.uu.se/~richardc/
> >  "Having users is like optimization: the wise course is to delay it."
> >    -- Paul Graham
>
> Eric Newhuis
> Chief Technology Officer
> FutureSource
> 630.649.9619 Mobile
> 630.792.2065 Office
> 630.792.2600 Fax
> enewhuis
> http://www.ifuturesource.com
>
> FutureSource | Futures Solutions. Now.
>
> The information contained in this e-mail message is legally privileged and
> confidential information intended only for the use of the individual or
> entity named above. If the reader of this e-mail message is not the intended
> recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or
> copy of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e mail
> in error, please contact the sender and immediately delete the original
> message. Thank you.
>
>
>

Richard Carlsson (richardc)   (This space intentionally left blank.)
E-mail: Richard.Carlsson WWW: http://user.it.uu.se/~richardc/
 "Having users is like optimization: the wise course is to delay it."
   -- Paul Graham


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AW: Hello (Erlang) World!

Rick Pettit-2
On Mon, Aug 16, 2004 at 02:58:10PM +0200, Richard Carlsson wrote:

>
> On Mon, 16 Aug 2004, Eric Newhuis wrote:
>
> > If memory serves me correctly we had trouble passing off some module names
> > to some OTP modules that liked to use the {M,F,A} "callback" idiom.
>
> As long as you used ?MODULE to pass the (full) module names, it should
> work with callbacks as well.
>
> > But there may have been some problems with some 3rd party tools as well.
> >
> > And we inherited a build system from someone and it did not like the dots
> > either.
>
> Yes, build systems usually make a lot of assumptions. It would be nice
> if someone who knows Erlang build systems well and also has an interest
> in packages (*coughulfwiger*) could present a good build strategy. :-)

We at Vail have been building Erlang applications with autotools, then
packaging with NetBSD pkgsrc and deploying via cfengine. This strategy has
worked well for us.

We continue to evolve the build system as we go, and fortunately the tools
mentioned above allow us to do that as an iterative process.

It also helps that the tools are both opensource and pretty standard these
days (and have been for quite some time).

Unfortunately I would have to do some checking before I could post any concrete
examples (i.e. Makefile.am's, configure.ac's, m4 macros, etc)

-Rick