Developing killer / open source apps

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Developing killer / open source apps

Nick S
I have just finished implementing a "professional" Erlang server, and with time and enthusiasm in hand, I would like to start working on something personal.
I must say, it has been really fun writing apps in OTP and see it processing millions of messages without ever crashing...!

Would appreciate some new ideas, that would be useful to community :)

- XMPP, AMQP etc are already in market!

- Any audio/video processing layer?

- Any telecom related...?

- Some standard protocol implementation?

- Something new for next generation...? (Buzz words... cloud computing etc..)

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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Ngoc Dao
A package manager that supports repositories?

On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 7:53 AM, Nick S <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have just finished implementing a "professional" Erlang server, and with
> time and enthusiasm in hand, I would like to start working on something
> personal.
> I must say, it has been really fun writing apps in OTP and see it processing
> millions of messages without ever crashing...!
>
> Would appreciate some new ideas, that would be useful to community :)
>
> - XMPP, AMQP etc are already in market!
>
> - Any audio/video processing layer?
>
> - Any telecom related...?
>
> - Some standard protocol implementation?
>
> - Something new for next generation...? (Buzz words... cloud computing
> etc..)
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
>
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

gnoblin
In reply to this post by Nick S
something related to social games?

2011/8/2 Nick S <[hidden email]>
I have just finished implementing a "professional" Erlang server, and with time and enthusiasm in hand, I would like to start working on something personal.
I must say, it has been really fun writing apps in OTP and see it processing millions of messages without ever crashing...!

Would appreciate some new ideas, that would be useful to community :)

- XMPP, AMQP etc are already in market!

- Any audio/video processing layer?

- Any telecom related...?

- Some standard protocol implementation?

- Something new for next generation...? (Buzz words... cloud computing etc..)

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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Ngoc Dao
In reply to this post by Ngoc Dao
Is there a tool for Erlang which is similar to gem for Ruby or npm for Node.js?

I guess the main reason why libraries of Ruby and Node.js have grown
so fast in just a few years is because they have gem and npm.


On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Max Lapshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:15 AM, Ngoc Dao <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> A package manager that supports repositories?
>>
>
> It is dull and dumb infrastructure that has nothing to do with erlang itself.
>
>
> Erlang is really great at messaging, video delivery, online gaming.
>
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Fabian Krol
Yes, there is agner.
http://erlagner.org/


--
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On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Ngoc Dao <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is there a tool for Erlang which is similar to gem for Ruby or npm for Node.js?
>
> I guess the main reason why libraries of Ruby and Node.js have grown
> so fast in just a few years is because they have gem and npm.
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Max Lapshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:15 AM, Ngoc Dao <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> A package manager that supports repositories?
>>>
>>
>> It is dull and dumb infrastructure that has nothing to do with erlang itself.
>>
>>
>> Erlang is really great at messaging, video delivery, online gaming.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Ngoc Dao
Thank you for the link. This is great!


On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:59 PM, Fabian Krol <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, there is agner.
> http://erlagner.org/
>
>
> --
> Fabian Król
> +48 794 746861
> www.fabiankrol.com
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 6:57 AM, Ngoc Dao <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Is there a tool for Erlang which is similar to gem for Ruby or npm for Node.js?
>>
>> I guess the main reason why libraries of Ruby and Node.js have grown
>> so fast in just a few years is because they have gem and npm.
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 1:28 PM, Max Lapshin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 2, 2011 at 3:15 AM, Ngoc Dao <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> A package manager that supports repositories?
>>>>
>>>
>>> It is dull and dumb infrastructure that has nothing to do with erlang itself.
>>>
>>>
>>> Erlang is really great at messaging, video delivery, online gaming.
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>
>
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Shaun Kruger
In reply to this post by Nick S
I could really use some contributions for my proxy server/load balancer project. :)

https://github.com/skruger/Surrogate

I recently modified it to allow for writing multiple protocol handlers (not just HTTP proxy) and I'm working on the admin interface finally.  I know it's a shameless plug, but the project really is cool.  Though, I might just think that because I wrote it. :)

Shaun

----- Original Message -----

> From: "Nick S" <[hidden email]>
> To: [hidden email]
> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2011 4:53:25 PM
> Subject: [erlang-questions] Developing killer / open source apps
>
>
> I have just finished implementing a "professional" Erlang server, and
> with time and enthusiasm in hand, I would like to start working on
> something personal.
> I must say, it has been really fun writing apps in OTP and see it
> processing millions of messages without ever crashing...!
>
> Would appreciate some new ideas, that would be useful to community :)
>
> - XMPP, AMQP etc are already in market!
>
> - Any audio/video processing layer?
>
> - Any telecom related...?
>
> - Some standard protocol implementation?
>
> - Something new for next generation...? (Buzz words... cloud
> computing etc..)
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Loïc Hoguin
In reply to this post by Nick S
On 08/02/2011 12:53 AM, Nick S wrote:
> - Any audio/video processing layer?

This. Do we have any good audio output library? Using something like
OpenAL or any other big standardized library. But I suspect that's more
NIF work than Erlang work.

--
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Dev:Extend
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Tim Watson-5
In reply to this post by Ngoc Dao
On 2 August 2011 00:15, Ngoc Dao <[hidden email]> wrote:
> A package manager that supports repositories?
>

Really? Another one? It would be nice if the existing ones (agner,
sutro, epm, cean 1.0/2.0, erlware) would come to some agreement about
something (anything?) let alone have another of these thrust upon us.

Having said that, if there *was* an Erlang equivalent of `cabal
install` - which there really isn't BTW - then that would be really
nice. But good grief it's a challenge to get right. I wish you good
luck if you're going to try this. :)
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Tim Watson-5
In reply to this post by Shaun Kruger
On 2 August 2011 15:43, Shaun Kruger <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I could really use some contributions for my proxy server/load balancer project. :)
>
> https://github.com/skruger/Surrogate
>
> I recently modified it to allow for writing multiple protocol handlers (not just HTTP proxy) and I'm working on the admin interface finally.  I know it's a shameless plug, but the project really is cool.  Though, I might just think that because I wrote it. :)
>
> Shaun

No, it really is a pretty cool project. :)
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Tim Watson-5
In reply to this post by Nick S
On 1 August 2011 23:53, Nick S <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have just finished implementing a "professional" Erlang server, and with
> time and enthusiasm in hand, I would like to start working on something
> personal.
> I must say, it has been really fun writing apps in OTP and see it processing
> millions of messages without ever crashing...!
>
> Would appreciate some new ideas, that would be useful to community :)
>
> - XMPP, AMQP etc are already in market!
>
> - Any audio/video processing layer?

http://code.google.com/p/erlyvideo/ has pretty much cornered this now.

>
> - Any telecom related...?
>

I have some interesting ideas here if you're up for learning megaco
and have access to kit (incl. network) for testing purposes.

> - Some standard protocol implementation?
>

There is a need for term (de)serialisation and data format translation
between common formats (XML, JSON, CSV, etc) which would be useful.
See this thread -
http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2011-August/060405.html -
read to the end.

It would also be very nice to have a standard database connectivity
API - see this thread for a conversation that's currently going on in
this space: http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2011-July/060347.html.

> - Something new for next generation...? (Buzz words... cloud computing
> etc..)

There is already CloudI on github. If you fancy implementing
http://dataconstellation.com/ActiveFacts/index.shtml in Erlang then
I'll join in, especially if you decide to extend the mapping
capabilities to non-relational data storage engines. :)

I'm not sure it's really a buzz-word, but the community is pretty
desperate to get better support for profiling and diagnostic tooling.
See this thread -
http://erlang.org/pipermail/erlang-questions/2011-July/060241.html -
there are *amazing* tools in OTP already, but support for working with
clustered/grid applications and chopping up the stats would be really
useful. There are projects starting to do this (my own, which I've
stopped working on for the time being and a couple of others) but
nobody seems to have *nailed it* yet.
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Ivan Uemlianin
On 03/08/2011 11:07, Tim Watson wrote:
> On 1 August 2011 23:53, Nick S<[hidden email]>  wrote:
>> - Any audio/video processing layer?
>
> http://code.google.com/p/erlyvideo/ has pretty much cornered this now.

n.b.: now seems to be at

     https://github.com/erlyvideo

Ivan


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============================================================
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Max Lapshin-2
In reply to this post by Tim Watson-5
http://code.google.com/p/erlyvideo repository wasn't updated for years.

All development now is going in http://github.com/erlyvideo and private repositories.

Currently I have not only frame repacking layer for codecs h264,aac,mp3,mpeg4,vp6,h263,pcm,g.711,g.726 and such protocols as
mpeg-ts, rtmp, rtsp/rtp, sip, but also some device handling features and transcoding modules.

And I can say you: ffmpeg is much better when it is in erlang =)  We are adding now generic libavcodec support, but such things
like libavformat at very badly written in C. Erlang fits this task much better.

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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Steve Strong
What's the chances of erlyvideo and the related libraries also being licensed with something slightly more permissive than GPL, such as LGPL or similar; we deal with a number of corporate clients where use of GPL is pretty much forbidden, so are having to replicate a number of areas of erylvideo functionality.  If the licensing was different, we could instead spend such efforts contributing back to erlyvideo…

Cheers,

Steve

On 3 Aug 2011, at 22:19, Max Lapshin wrote:

http://code.google.com/p/erlyvideo repository wasn't updated for years.

All development now is going in http://github.com/erlyvideo and private repositories.

Currently I have not only frame repacking layer for codecs h264,aac,mp3,mpeg4,vp6,h263,pcm,g.711,g.726 and such protocols as
mpeg-ts, rtmp, rtsp/rtp, sip, but also some device handling features and transcoding modules.

And I can say you: ffmpeg is much better when it is in erlang =)  We are adding now generic libavcodec support, but such things
like libavformat at very badly written in C. Erlang fits this task much better.
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Max Lapshin-2
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 12:44 AM, Steve Strong <[hidden email]> wrote:
> What's the chances of erlyvideo and the related libraries also being
> licensed with something slightly more permissive than GPL, such as LGPL or
> similar; we deal with a number of corporate clients where use of GPL is
> pretty much forbidden, so are having to replicate a number of areas of
> erylvideo functionality.  If the licensing was different, we could instead
> spend such efforts contributing back to erlyvideo…
> Cheers,
> Steve


I'm open to communications on this point.

While erlyvideo was licensed as MIT I have received only 10 lines of
code from external contributors. Only 10 lines during 3 years.

Now, when erlyvideo is GPL it is easier for me to get money and
erlyvideo becomes better and better. Sorry, but I don't believe in
opensource
contributors to streaming servers. I'm watching at situation in other
streaming servers (rtmpd and red5) and see, that there is the same
situation:
no contributors, but many users.

So, currently I have zero reasons to switch licenses, because for 3
years there were absolutely no qualified contributors willing to send
their code,
but there were  guys, that wished to sell packed erlyvideo without
sharing me any profit.

Yet, there are commercial clients, that don't want to distribute their
source code and I find ways to work with them and I share my code
under non-GPL.
Everybody is in win from this: we get profit, community gets better
opensourced code.

While there are no substitutions for libraries, that I've written for
erlyvideo, I don't see any reasons to change anything.
BSD is good for infrastructure code. For example, libreadline gets
problems from GPL license because we have to use horrible libedit.

Erlyvideo libraries aren't distributable outside erlyvideo, so there
is even no reason to make them LGPL.
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Steve Strong
Given your previous experience when licensed as MIT, I can fully understand your position - 10 lines in 3 years is a pretty poor return :(  A real shame (from my perspective), but entirely understandable.

Cheers,

Steve

On 3 Aug 2011, at 23:08, Max Lapshin wrote:

> On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 12:44 AM, Steve Strong <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> What's the chances of erlyvideo and the related libraries also being
>> licensed with something slightly more permissive than GPL, such as LGPL or
>> similar; we deal with a number of corporate clients where use of GPL is
>> pretty much forbidden, so are having to replicate a number of areas of
>> erylvideo functionality.  If the licensing was different, we could instead
>> spend such efforts contributing back to erlyvideo…
>> Cheers,
>> Steve
>
>
> I'm open to communications on this point.
>
> While erlyvideo was licensed as MIT I have received only 10 lines of
> code from external contributors. Only 10 lines during 3 years.
>
> Now, when erlyvideo is GPL it is easier for me to get money and
> erlyvideo becomes better and better. Sorry, but I don't believe in
> opensource
> contributors to streaming servers. I'm watching at situation in other
> streaming servers (rtmpd and red5) and see, that there is the same
> situation:
> no contributors, but many users.
>
> So, currently I have zero reasons to switch licenses, because for 3
> years there were absolutely no qualified contributors willing to send
> their code,
> but there were  guys, that wished to sell packed erlyvideo without
> sharing me any profit.
>
> Yet, there are commercial clients, that don't want to distribute their
> source code and I find ways to work with them and I share my code
> under non-GPL.
> Everybody is in win from this: we get profit, community gets better
> opensourced code.
>
> While there are no substitutions for libraries, that I've written for
> erlyvideo, I don't see any reasons to change anything.
> BSD is good for infrastructure code. For example, libreadline gets
> problems from GPL license because we have to use horrible libedit.
>
> Erlyvideo libraries aren't distributable outside erlyvideo, so there
> is even no reason to make them LGPL.

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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Max Lapshin-2
On Thu, Aug 4, 2011 at 1:20 AM, Steve Strong <[hidden email]> wrote:
> Given your previous experience when licensed as MIT, I can fully understand your position - 10 lines in 3 years is a pretty poor return :(  A real shame (from my perspective), but entirely understandable.
>

Yes. I spend 16 hours per day on erlyvideo code, but this is why I
release it under GPL.

I'm not working on anybody and nobody invests in BSD license, so this
is the same situation as with libx264:
no substitutions in erlang world (and frankly speaking even in Java,
red5 is not an issue) and I'm ready to release it closed source for
commercial users.
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Marc Worrell
In reply to this post by Max Lapshin-2

On 3 aug 2011, at 23:08, Max Lapshin wrote:
While erlyvideo was licensed as MIT I have received only 10 lines of
code from external contributors. Only 10 lines during 3 years.

This is indeed a terrible return for all your efforts.
With Zotonic we are more lucky, receiving many patches, complete modules, translations and documentation from the community.

In your case I completely understand the GPL license.  I already assumed that the erlyvideo business was not possible without this license.

- Marc


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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Max Lapshin-2
On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 4:12 PM, Marc Worrell <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This is indeed a terrible return for all your efforts.
> With Zotonic we are more lucky, receiving many patches, complete modules,
> translations and documentation from the community.
> In your case I completely understand the GPL license.  I already assumed
> that the erlyvideo business was not possible without this license.
>
>

Frankly speaking, the only practical reason for me to keep erlyvideo
opensource is to have marketing advantage before competitor:
my clients have their developers, that can edit erlyvideo sources and
add their own plugins.
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Re: Developing killer / open source apps

Daniel Goertzen-3
In reply to this post by Nick S
How about interfacing Erlang to the Qt UI library?

I don't mean a convential binding like wxErlang or PyQt, but components to facilitate message passing between Erlang and a Qt port program or NIF thread running a Qt message loop.

Qt has relatively recently introduced QML, which is basically a fancy GUI designer that lets you incorporate javascript.  The application development model is that the GUI is written in QML/javascript, and the underlying application logic is in C++ (very Web 2.0-ish).  Now instead of writing C++, you have your QML/javascript talk to the "ErQt" object which passes messages to/from Erlang, and Erlang implements the application logic.

Conceivably one could create a single Qt port executable, driver, or NIF library that could run any number of QML/javascript programs.  Creating a GUI for Erlang would involve using the native Qt tools for authoring QML and javascript, and implementing your comm protocol on both the javascript and Erlang sides.  Your QML/javascript GUI would run on the standard Qt port exectable...no additional C++ compiling required.

Now QML is currently only available for mobile devices, but the Qt folks have stated that they will port it to the desktop and this will become the preferred way to develop desktop Qt apps.

This project would likely involve more C++ than Erlang, so I'm not sure how you feel about that. ;)

Cheers,
Dan.


On Mon, Aug 1, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Nick S <[hidden email]> wrote:
I have just finished implementing a "professional" Erlang server, and with time and enthusiasm in hand, I would like to start working on something personal.
I must say, it has been really fun writing apps in OTP and see it processing millions of messages without ever crashing...!

Would appreciate some new ideas, that would be useful to community :)

- XMPP, AMQP etc are already in market!

- Any audio/video processing layer?

- Any telecom related...?

- Some standard protocol implementation?

- Something new for next generation...? (Buzz words... cloud computing etc..)

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