GUI development with Erlang

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Loïc Hoguin-3
We gave people more memory.

On 12/07/2017 09:51 PM, Joe Armstrong wrote:

> Hello world (or rather a little window with a couple of buttons)
> in Qt is 33KB - only 3484 times smaller.
>
> Which probably explain why Qt is more popular for building apps than
> Electron.
>
> Being an old timer I recall a time when the entire OS including the
> windowing system and a large number of applications all fitted in
> under 640KB :-)
>
> Where did we go wrong ?
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Thomas Elsgaard
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Hello World is 115 MB ;-)
>
>     tor. 7. dec. 2017 kl. 16.10 skrev Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>
>         How big are the applications built with Electron?
>
>         /Joe
>
>
>
>         On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Zachary Kessin
>         <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>             I was thinking of something like Electron
>             https://electronjs.org/ <https://electronjs.org/> with an
>             Erlang backend.
>
>             Mind I have no idea how to actually build that
>
>             Zach
>             ᐧ
>
>             On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Joe Armstrong
>             <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>                 If you want something that just works and is reasonably
>                 simple to implement
>                 Browser based GUI's are pretty good.
>
>                 The combination of web sockets + SVG/Canavas/DOM
>                 manipulation in JS
>                 is pretty easy to setup and loads of people understand
>                 JS/Browser things.
>
>                 Stand-alone outside the browser is tricky.
>
>                 TCL/Tk is really easy to get going and interface (yes
>                 it's old but works well)
>
>                 Java Swing is what it is - and if you're good at Java
>                 might be an alternative
>                 but you'd have to interface it to Erlang.
>
>                 QT is brilliant but you'd need to write the GUI in C++
>                 and interface it to Erlang
>
>                 WxWidgets is actually pretty good but has a steep
>                 learning curve (a cliff) -
>                 I did actually manage to build some interfaces with it
>                 and concluded that
>                 it was pretty good but that it needed a *lot* of
>                 examples and getting started
>                 tutorials.
>
>                 Cheers
>
>                 /Joe
>
>
>                 On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Alan Gingras
>                 <[hidden email]
>                 <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>                     __
>
>                     Thanks for the suggestion.  I've been trying to keep
>                     the work totally in Erlang.  Partly because I am
>                     trying to become better with Erlang itself and
>                     partly out of stubbornness.  I had looked at using a
>                     browser based GUI but for what I'm doing I really
>                     don't want (or need) to be too complicated.  One of
>                     the other responses suggested using C# to create the
>                     front end and communicate with Erlang via TCP.  I
>                     had thought of that as well, but decided to pursue
>                     using pure Erlang but have become stymied by
>                     wxErlang and its difficulty.  Most likely I will end
>                     up pursing the C# (or similar) front end.
>
>
>                     Alan
>
>>                     On December 6, 2017 at 3:04 AM Zachary Kessin
>>                     <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>                     I had thought it would be an interesting idea to
>>                     build a GUI toolset around Erlang such that each
>>                     widget on screen was a process. That being said I
>>                     think to develop such a toolkit would probably
>>                     cost on the order of $1,000,000 (Total guess on
>>                     the number).
>>
>>                     If I had to develop a desktop app with Erlang I
>>                     would probably use something like Electra to do a
>>                     virtual browser with an Elm Frontend.
>>
>>                     Zach
>>                     ᐧ
>>
>>                     On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Sergej Jurečko
>>                     <[hidden email]
>>                     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>                         What we did when we wanted to ship a GUI app
>>                         with Erlang was running erl in the background
>>                         and communicate over stdin/stdout.
>>
>>                         Regards,
>>                         Sergej
>>
>>
>>>                         On 5 Dec 2017, at 09:07, Alex S.
>>>                         <[hidden email]
>>>                         <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                         For what it's worth, you can always implement
>>>                         your view and controller in something like
>>>                         C#/F#, and your model in Erlang, and hook
>>>                         them up via TCP. Alternatively, there was an
>>>                         Erlang-toF# compiler floating around I believe.
>>>
>>>                         2017-12-03 22:43 GMT+03:00 Alan Gingras
>>>                         <[hidden email]
>>>                         <mailto:[hidden email]>>:
>>>
>>>                             Has anyone tried using Windows Forms
>>>                             (.net) with Erlang?  This would be in a
>>>                             similar fashion to way Python can use
>>>                             Windows Forms.  On Linux I believe this
>>>                             would be Mono
>>>                             (http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/
>>>                             <http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/>).
>>>                             Basically I think I’m looking for
>>>                             something similar to Python’s “import”
>>>                             and C#’s “using” features.  If no one has
>>>                             anything, any hints on how a feature like
>>>                             this might be implemented.____
>>>
>>>                             __ __
>>>
>>>                             Basically, I have been working on
>>>                             implementing genetic programming in
>>>                             Erlang and would like to provide a GUI
>>>                             front end.  The WxWidgets front end that
>>>                             comes with Erlang is difficult at best.
>>>                             I’ve used several different GUI kits on
>>>                             *nix and Windows platforms but WxWidgets
>>>                             seems the most difficult for me.  So I’m
>>>                             trying to see what else is available.  I
>>>                             followed Joe Armstrong’s quest earlier
>>>                             this year and didn’t see where he came up
>>>                             with anything.____
>>>
>>>                             __ __
>>>
>>>                             Thanks.____
>>>
>>>                             Alan____
>>>
>>>
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>>                     --
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>             --
>             Zach Kessin
>             Reduce project risk with training in Elm For web teams
>             Skype: zachkessin
>             +972 54 234 3956 <tel:+972%2054-234-3956> / +44 203 734 9790
>             <tel:+44%2020%203734%209790> / +1 617 778 7213
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--
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Eric des Courtis-3
In reply to this post by Joe Armstrong-2
My guess is that it might have something to do with time being linear and Moore's law not.

Don't worry however Rock's law will force us to revisit this soon.

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:51 PM, Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello world (or rather a little window with a couple of buttons)
in Qt is 33KB - only 3484 times smaller.

Which probably explain why Qt is more popular for building apps than 
Electron.

Being an old timer I recall a time when the entire OS including the 
windowing system and a large number of applications all fitted in
under 640KB :-)

Where did we go wrong ?





On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 6:46 PM, Thomas Elsgaard <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello World is 115 MB ;-)

tor. 7. dec. 2017 kl. 16.10 skrev Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]>:
How big are the applications built with Electron?

/Joe



On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:32 PM, Zachary Kessin <[hidden email]> wrote:
I was thinking of something like Electron https://electronjs.org/ with an Erlang backend. 

Mind I have no idea how to actually build that

Zach

On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 2:50 PM, Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]> wrote:
If you want something that just works and is reasonably simple to implement
Browser based GUI's are pretty good.

The combination of web sockets + SVG/Canavas/DOM manipulation in JS
is pretty easy to setup and loads of people understand JS/Browser things.

Stand-alone outside the browser is tricky.

TCL/Tk is really easy to get going and interface (yes it's old but works well)

Java Swing is what it is - and if you're good at Java might be an alternative
but you'd have to interface it to Erlang.

QT is brilliant but you'd need to write the GUI in C++ and interface it to Erlang

WxWidgets is actually pretty good but has a steep learning curve (a cliff) -
I did actually manage to build some interfaces with it and concluded that
it was pretty good but that it needed a *lot* of examples and getting started
tutorials.

Cheers

/Joe


On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Alan Gingras <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion.  I've been trying to keep the work totally in Erlang.  Partly because I am trying to become better with Erlang itself and partly out of stubbornness.  I had looked at using a browser based GUI but for what I'm doing I really don't want (or need) to be too complicated.  One of the other responses suggested using C# to create the front end and communicate with Erlang via TCP.  I had thought of that as well, but decided to pursue using pure Erlang but have become stymied by wxErlang and its difficulty.  Most likely I will end up pursing the C# (or similar) front end.


Alan

On December 6, 2017 at 3:04 AM Zachary Kessin <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had thought it would be an interesting idea to build a GUI toolset around Erlang such that each widget on screen was a process. That being said I think to develop such a toolkit would probably cost on the order of $1,000,000 (Total guess on the number).

If I had to develop a desktop app with Erlang I would probably use something like Electra to do a virtual browser with an Elm Frontend.

Zach

On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Sergej Jurečko <[hidden email]> wrote:
What we did when we wanted to ship a GUI app with Erlang was running erl in the background and communicate over stdin/stdout. 

Regards,
Sergej


On 5 Dec 2017, at 09:07, Alex S. <[hidden email]> wrote:

For what it's worth, you can always implement your view and controller in something like C#/F#, and your model in Erlang, and hook them up via TCP. Alternatively, there was an Erlang-toF# compiler floating around I believe.

2017-12-03 22:43 GMT+03:00 Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>:

Has anyone tried using Windows Forms (.net) with Erlang?  This would be in a similar fashion to way Python can use Windows Forms.  On Linux I believe this would be Mono (http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/).  Basically I think I’m looking for something similar to Python’s “import” and C#’s “using” features.  If no one has anything, any hints on how a feature like this might be implemented.

 

Basically, I have been working on implementing genetic programming in Erlang and would like to provide a GUI front end.  The WxWidgets front end that comes with Erlang is difficult at best.  I’ve used several different GUI kits on *nix and Windows platforms but WxWidgets seems the most difficult for me.  So I’m trying to see what else is available.  I followed Joe Armstrong’s quest earlier this year and didn’t see where he came up with anything.

 

Thanks.

Alan


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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Attila Rajmund Nohl
In reply to this post by Joe Armstrong-2
2017-12-07 21:51 GMT+01:00 Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]>:

>
> Hello world (or rather a little window with a couple of buttons)
> in Qt is 33KB - only 3484 times smaller.
>
> Which probably explain why Qt is more popular for building apps than
> Electron.
>
> Being an old timer I recall a time when the entire OS including the
> windowing system and a large number of applications all fitted in
> under 640KB :-)
>
> Where did we go wrong ?

I believe back in those days we were using displays with 320x200
pixels, 8 bits color depth. Nowadays we're using 1680x1050 with 32
bits color depth. Instead of 64 KB now it's takes more than 7 MB for a
single display frame.
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

zxq9-2
In reply to this post by Loïc Hoguin-3
On 2017年12月07日 木曜日 21:53:20 Loïc Hoguin wrote:
> On 12/07/2017 09:51 PM, Joe Armstrong wrote:
> > Where did we go wrong ?
>
> We gave people more memory.

Not just more memory.

Here, let me pay you for that memory chip in bitcoin... brb...

-Craig
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

zxq9-2
In reply to this post by Attila Rajmund Nohl
On 2017年12月08日 金曜日 08:50:02 Attila Rajmund Nohl wrote:

> 2017-12-07 21:51 GMT+01:00 Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]>:
> >
> > Hello world (or rather a little window with a couple of buttons)
> > in Qt is 33KB - only 3484 times smaller.
> >
> > Which probably explain why Qt is more popular for building apps than
> > Electron.
> >
> > Being an old timer I recall a time when the entire OS including the
> > windowing system and a large number of applications all fitted in
> > under 640KB :-)
> >
> > Where did we go wrong ?
>
> I believe back in those days we were using displays with 320x200
> pixels, 8 bits color depth. Nowadays we're using 1680x1050 with 32
> bits color depth. Instead of 64 KB now it's takes more than 7 MB for a
> single display frame.

In the graphics controller's state, not your program.
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Anthony Ramine-4
In reply to this post by Joe Armstrong-2
I'll wait for a 640KB OS that is accessible and can be used by disabled people before saying we went wrong somewhere.

> Le 7 déc. 2017 à 21:51, Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]> a écrit :
>
> Where did we go wrong ?

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Attila Rajmund Nohl
In reply to this post by zxq9-2
2017-12-08 10:53 GMT+01:00 zxq9 <[hidden email]>:
>
> On 2017年12月08日 金曜日 08:50:02 Attila Rajmund Nohl wrote:
> > 2017-12-07 21:51 GMT+01:00 Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]>:
[...]

> > > Being an old timer I recall a time when the entire OS including the
> > > windowing system and a large number of applications all fitted in
> > > under 640KB :-)
> > >
> > > Where did we go wrong ?
> >
> > I believe back in those days we were using displays with 320x200
> > pixels, 8 bits color depth. Nowadays we're using 1680x1050 with 32
> > bits color depth. Instead of 64 KB now it's takes more than 7 MB for a
> > single display frame.
>
> In the graphics controller's state, not your program.

But that still needs to be created in the program.
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Lloyd R. Prentice-2
Way back in the day my company developed Apple II educational and consumer software products delivered on Apple II single-sided floppy discs. These included interactive games, delightful full-screen graphics and animation, and music. 



Folks swore that you couldn't do music on the Apple II, but we did.

The secrets: Forth '79, which provided an incredibly small footprint and its own operating system.

All the best,

LRP

Sent from my iPad

On Dec 8, 2017, at 9:30 AM, Attila Rajmund Nohl <[hidden email]> wrote:

2017-12-08 10:53 GMT+01:00 zxq9 <[hidden email]>:

On 2017年12月08日 金曜日 08:50:02 Attila Rajmund Nohl wrote:
2017-12-07 21:51 GMT+01:00 Joe Armstrong <[hidden email]>:
[...]
Being an old timer I recall a time when the entire OS including the
windowing system and a large number of applications all fitted in
under 640KB :-)

Where did we go wrong ?

I believe back in those days we were using displays with 320x200
pixels, 8 bits color depth. Nowadays we're using 1680x1050 with 32
bits color depth. Instead of 64 KB now it's takes more than 7 MB for a
single display frame.

In the graphics controller's state, not your program.

But that still needs to be created in the program.
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

scott ribe
Hey, if we're playing that game, I once contracted to develop grammar reference which had to fit on a floppy disk along with the OS & MS Word. The effort/code size ratio was obscene.

> On Dec 8, 2017, at 8:50 AM, Lloyd R. Prentice <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Way back in the day my company developed Apple II educational and consumer software products delivered on Apple II single-sided floppy discs. These included interactive games, delightful full-screen graphics and animation, and music.
>

--
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(303) 722-0567

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Alan Gingras
In reply to this post by Joe Armstrong-2

Thanks Joe.  I appreciate yours (and others) suggestions.  I have actually worked through some wxErlang and agree that WxWidgets can produce a decent user interface but as you said there is a cliff there.  I am trying to avoid getting bogged down in learning wxWidgets.  My preference is a stand-alone application but it looks like that is not really going to be possible.  My genetic programming code is in Erlang and I must say it was a joy to implement it there.  Out of curiosity and for comparison of languages I implemented it in both C++ and Erlang at the same time.  The Erlang was less effort to get right and ended up being a fraction of the code.  The C++ version still has issues (memory issues mostly) and crashes more often than not.  I had originally implemented it in C++ but after getting exposed to Erlang was convinced it would work better.  As I said I implemented it in Erlang and re-implemented it in C++.  Sure the C++ is faster but doesn’t work 100% yet.  Erlang works wonderfully.  A point to note here is that I have been working in C/C++ for both desktop and embedded development for 20+ years and was actually shocked that as a novice in Erlang I was able to implement it better there than in C++ where I am much more experienced.

 

Sorry for the digression.  Most likely I will end up using C# to implement my GUI and connect to the Erlang using a port or TCP.

 

Again, my thanks to you and others for your advice.

 

Alan

 

From: Joe Armstrong [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 07:50
To: Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>
Cc: Sergej Jurečko <[hidden email]>; Zachary Kessin <[hidden email]>; Erlang <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang

 

If you want something that just works and is reasonably simple to implement

Browser based GUI's are pretty good.

 

The combination of web sockets + SVG/Canavas/DOM manipulation in JS

is pretty easy to setup and loads of people understand JS/Browser things.

 

Stand-alone outside the browser is tricky.

 

TCL/Tk is really easy to get going and interface (yes it's old but works well)

 

Java Swing is what it is - and if you're good at Java might be an alternative

but you'd have to interface it to Erlang.

 

QT is brilliant but you'd need to write the GUI in C++ and interface it to Erlang

 

WxWidgets is actually pretty good but has a steep learning curve (a cliff) -

I did actually manage to build some interfaces with it and concluded that

it was pretty good but that it needed a *lot* of examples and getting started

tutorials.

 

Cheers

 

/Joe

 

 

On Wed, Dec 6, 2017 at 12:43 PM, Alan Gingras <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion.  I've been trying to keep the work totally in Erlang.  Partly because I am trying to become better with Erlang itself and partly out of stubbornness.  I had looked at using a browser based GUI but for what I'm doing I really don't want (or need) to be too complicated.  One of the other responses suggested using C# to create the front end and communicate with Erlang via TCP.  I had thought of that as well, but decided to pursue using pure Erlang but have become stymied by wxErlang and its difficulty.  Most likely I will end up pursing the C# (or similar) front end.

 

Alan

On December 6, 2017 at 3:04 AM Zachary Kessin <[hidden email]> wrote:

I had thought it would be an interesting idea to build a GUI toolset around Erlang such that each widget on screen was a process. That being said I think to develop such a toolkit would probably cost on the order of $1,000,000 (Total guess on the number).

 

If I had to develop a desktop app with Erlang I would probably use something like Electra to do a virtual browser with an Elm Frontend.

 

Zach

 

On Tue, Dec 5, 2017 at 10:13 AM, Sergej Jurečko <[hidden email]> wrote:

What we did when we wanted to ship a GUI app with Erlang was running erl in the background and communicate over stdin/stdout. 

 

Regards,

Sergej

 



On 5 Dec 2017, at 09:07, Alex S. <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

For what it's worth, you can always implement your view and controller in something like C#/F#, and your model in Erlang, and hook them up via TCP. Alternatively, there was an Erlang-toF# compiler floating around I believe.

 

2017-12-03 22:43 GMT+03:00 Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>:

Has anyone tried using Windows Forms (.net) with Erlang?  This would be in a similar fashion to way Python can use Windows Forms.  On Linux I believe this would be Mono (http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/).  Basically I think I’m looking for something similar to Python’s “import” and C#’s “using” features.  If no one has anything, any hints on how a feature like this might be implemented.

 

Basically, I have been working on implementing genetic programming in Erlang and would like to provide a GUI front end.  The WxWidgets front end that comes with Erlang is difficult at best.  I’ve used several different GUI kits on *nix and Windows platforms but WxWidgets seems the most difficult for me.  So I’m trying to see what else is available.  I followed Joe Armstrong’s quest earlier this year and didn’t see where he came up with anything.

 

Thanks.

Alan


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--

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Reduce project risk with training in Elm For web teams

Skype: zachkessin

<a href="tel:+972%2054-234-3956" target="_blank">+972 54 234 3956 / <a href="tel:+44%2020%203734%209790" target="_blank">+44 203 734 9790 / <a href="tel:(617)%20778-7213" target="_blank">+1 617 778 7213

 

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Alan Gingras
In reply to this post by arif-2
Arif,

Perhaps my difficulty lies in the documentation for wxErlang and WxWidgets
combined with my experience with Windows.Forms, TCL/Tk and others.  I have
been able to find excellent documentation and examples easily for pretty
much everything I have wanted or needed to do.  Not diminishing WxWidgets,
but getting the layouts correct and working as desired has been faster and
easier for me in every other GUI package I've used.  The others (for the
most part) seemed more intuitive to me than the windows/panels etc. of
wxWidgets.  And I have worked through what little I can find on the
wxErlang, i.e.
http://www.idiom.com/~turner/wxtut/wxwidgets.html
http://wxerlang.dougedmunds.com/

In the end, I think better documentation - not written for someone who
already knows how to use either WxWidgets or wxErlang - would be a key
improvement.

Regards,
Alan


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 08:04
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang

Hi,
I have been using wxErlang on some projects and I don't find it too hard. I
make the GUI in separate processes and communicate with the application
using regular erlang message passing.
Using the wx_object, it is practically a breeze. It is like programming a
gen_server. I even run the GUI processes supervised, to allow me to "let it
crash".
Also, you can use wxFormBuilder to do the layout and use the generated PHP
or LUA code to figure out what you need to do in wxErlang. I suppose you
could even write a parser to generate your erlang code from those.
So I am curious. What is that you find so hard about it? And what makes it
easier with C# or the like?
Thanks
Arif


Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:08:39 -0500
From: "Alan Gingras" <[hidden email]>
To: "'Alex S.'" <[hidden email]>
Cc: 'Erlang' <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
Message-ID: <002901d36ece$026702a0$073507e0$@comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Thanks Alex.  I had thought of that but was trying to make this a pure
Erlang application.  This is most likely the approach I will end up taking
unless I decide to pursue wxErlang, but that is probably a little unlikely.


From: Alex S. [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 03:08
To: Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>
Cc: Erlang <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang

For what it's worth, you can always implement your view and controller in
something like C#/F#, and your model in Erlang, and hook them up via TCP.
Alternatively, there was an Erlang-toF# compiler floating around I believe.


2017-12-03 22:43 GMT+03:00 Alan Gingras <[hidden email]
<mailto:[hidden email]> >:

Has anyone tried using Windows Forms (.net) with Erlang?  This would be in a
similar fashion to way Python can use Windows Forms.  On Linux I believe
this would be Mono (http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/).
Basically I think I?m looking for something similar to Python?s ?import? and
C#?s ?using?
features.  If no one has anything, any hints on how a feature like this
might be implemented.

Basically, I have been working on implementing genetic programming in Erlang
and would like to provide a GUI front end.  The WxWidgets front end that
comes with Erlang is difficult at best.  I?ve used several different GUI
kits on *nix and Windows platforms but WxWidgets seems the most difficult
for me.  So I?m trying to see what else is available.  I followed Joe
Armstrong?s quest earlier this year and didn?t see where he came up with
anything.

Thanks.

Alan

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Loïc Hoguin-3
I used to have the book https://www.wxwidgets.org/docs/book/

It's a really good resource to learn wxWidgets. I don't know how well it
aged exactly but it should still be very relevant as the interface has
not changed that much.

On 12/09/2017 01:39 PM, Alan Gingras wrote:

> Arif,
>
> Perhaps my difficulty lies in the documentation for wxErlang and WxWidgets
> combined with my experience with Windows.Forms, TCL/Tk and others.  I have
> been able to find excellent documentation and examples easily for pretty
> much everything I have wanted or needed to do.  Not diminishing WxWidgets,
> but getting the layouts correct and working as desired has been faster and
> easier for me in every other GUI package I've used.  The others (for the
> most part) seemed more intuitive to me than the windows/panels etc. of
> wxWidgets.  And I have worked through what little I can find on the
> wxErlang, i.e.
> http://www.idiom.com/~turner/wxtut/wxwidgets.html
> http://wxerlang.dougedmunds.com/
>
> In the end, I think better documentation - not written for someone who
> already knows how to use either WxWidgets or wxErlang - would be a key
> improvement.
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 08:04
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
>
> Hi,
> I have been using wxErlang on some projects and I don't find it too hard. I
> make the GUI in separate processes and communicate with the application
> using regular erlang message passing.
> Using the wx_object, it is practically a breeze. It is like programming a
> gen_server. I even run the GUI processes supervised, to allow me to "let it
> crash".
> Also, you can use wxFormBuilder to do the layout and use the generated PHP
> or LUA code to figure out what you need to do in wxErlang. I suppose you
> could even write a parser to generate your erlang code from those.
> So I am curious. What is that you find so hard about it? And what makes it
> easier with C# or the like?
> Thanks
> Arif
>
>
> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:08:39 -0500
> From: "Alan Gingras" <[hidden email]>
> To: "'Alex S.'" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: 'Erlang' <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
> Message-ID: <002901d36ece$026702a0$073507e0$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thanks Alex.  I had thought of that but was trying to make this a pure
> Erlang application.  This is most likely the approach I will end up taking
> unless I decide to pursue wxErlang, but that is probably a little unlikely.
>
>
> From: Alex S. [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 03:08
> To: Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Erlang <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
>
> For what it's worth, you can always implement your view and controller in
> something like C#/F#, and your model in Erlang, and hook them up via TCP.
> Alternatively, there was an Erlang-toF# compiler floating around I believe.
>
>
> 2017-12-03 22:43 GMT+03:00 Alan Gingras <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]> >:
>
> Has anyone tried using Windows Forms (.net) with Erlang?  This would be in a
> similar fashion to way Python can use Windows Forms.  On Linux I believe
> this would be Mono (http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/).
> Basically I think I?m looking for something similar to Python?s ?import? and
> C#?s ?using?
> features.  If no one has anything, any hints on how a feature like this
> might be implemented.
>
> Basically, I have been working on implementing genetic programming in Erlang
> and would like to provide a GUI front end.  The WxWidgets front end that
> comes with Erlang is difficult at best.  I?ve used several different GUI
> kits on *nix and Windows platforms but WxWidgets seems the most difficult
> for me.  So I?m trying to see what else is available.  I followed Joe
> Armstrong?s quest earlier this year and didn?t see where he came up with
> anything.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>

--
Loïc Hoguin
https://ninenines.eu
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

arif-2
In reply to this post by Alan Gingras
Thanks Alan for your explanation. It makes sense. I sort of forgot about
the initial difficulties. So I have put together a small description for
you in case you still want to give it a try.
https://arifishaq.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/wxerlang-getting-started.pdf
Good luck!
Arif

On 2017-12-09 13:39, Alan Gingras wrote:

> Arif,
>
> Perhaps my difficulty lies in the documentation for wxErlang and WxWidgets
> combined with my experience with Windows.Forms, TCL/Tk and others.  I have
> been able to find excellent documentation and examples easily for pretty
> much everything I have wanted or needed to do.  Not diminishing WxWidgets,
> but getting the layouts correct and working as desired has been faster and
> easier for me in every other GUI package I've used.  The others (for the
> most part) seemed more intuitive to me than the windows/panels etc. of
> wxWidgets.  And I have worked through what little I can find on the
> wxErlang, i.e.
> http://www.idiom.com/~turner/wxtut/wxwidgets.html
> http://wxerlang.dougedmunds.com/
>
> In the end, I think better documentation - not written for someone who
> already knows how to use either WxWidgets or wxErlang - would be a key
> improvement.
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of [hidden email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 08:04
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
>
> Hi,
> I have been using wxErlang on some projects and I don't find it too hard. I
> make the GUI in separate processes and communicate with the application
> using regular erlang message passing.
> Using the wx_object, it is practically a breeze. It is like programming a
> gen_server. I even run the GUI processes supervised, to allow me to "let it
> crash".
> Also, you can use wxFormBuilder to do the layout and use the generated PHP
> or LUA code to figure out what you need to do in wxErlang. I suppose you
> could even write a parser to generate your erlang code from those.
> So I am curious. What is that you find so hard about it? And what makes it
> easier with C# or the like?
> Thanks
> Arif
>
>
> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:08:39 -0500
> From: "Alan Gingras" <[hidden email]>
> To: "'Alex S.'" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: 'Erlang' <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
> Message-ID: <002901d36ece$026702a0$073507e0$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thanks Alex.  I had thought of that but was trying to make this a pure
> Erlang application.  This is most likely the approach I will end up taking
> unless I decide to pursue wxErlang, but that is probably a little unlikely.
>
>
> From: Alex S. [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 03:08
> To: Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Erlang <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
>
> For what it's worth, you can always implement your view and controller in
> something like C#/F#, and your model in Erlang, and hook them up via TCP.
> Alternatively, there was an Erlang-toF# compiler floating around I believe.
>
>
> 2017-12-03 22:43 GMT+03:00 Alan Gingras <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]> >:
>
> Has anyone tried using Windows Forms (.net) with Erlang?  This would be in a
> similar fashion to way Python can use Windows Forms.  On Linux I believe
> this would be Mono (http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/).
> Basically I think I?m looking for something similar to Python?s ?import? and
> C#?s ?using?
> features.  If no one has anything, any hints on how a feature like this
> might be implemented.
>
> Basically, I have been working on implementing genetic programming in Erlang
> and would like to provide a GUI front end.  The WxWidgets front end that
> comes with Erlang is difficult at best.  I?ve used several different GUI
> kits on *nix and Windows platforms but WxWidgets seems the most difficult
> for me.  So I?m trying to see what else is available.  I followed Joe
> Armstrong?s quest earlier this year and didn?t see where he came up with
> anything.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Leo Liu-2
On 2017-12-21 12:06 -0800, [hidden email] wrote:
> Thanks Alan for your explanation. It makes sense. I sort of forgot about
> the initial difficulties. So I have put together a small description for
> you in case you still want to give it a try.
> https://arifishaq.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/wxerlang-getting-started.pdf
> Good luck!
> Arif

👍👍👍👍👍

This is amazing. It will be even more amazing to be part of the wx
documentation in OTP. Thank you.

Leo

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Alan Gingras
In reply to this post by arif-2
Arif,

Wow! Thanks for this excellent tutorial.  All the searching I've done and I
have found nothing like this.  I've worked through Doug Edmunds site and the
few others I've found but this booklet is definitely a great resource.  I
will work through this and see if it changes my mind about doing my project
with wxErlang.  I have what I want to accomplish in mind and see some
difficulties ahead (mostly with the desire to create a chart).  I see that
wxErlang / wxWidgets does not have a "native" chart control.  I know that
the Erlang observer utility has some load charts but it looks like they draw
the chart themselves so I might be able to "steal" that.

Thanks again.

Sincerely yours,
Alan

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, December 21, 2017 15:07
To: Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang

Thanks Alan for your explanation. It makes sense. I sort of forgot about the
initial difficulties. So I have put together a small description for you in
case you still want to give it a try.
https://arifishaq.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/wxerlang-getting-started.pdf
Good luck!
Arif

On 2017-12-09 13:39, Alan Gingras wrote:

> Arif,
>
> Perhaps my difficulty lies in the documentation for wxErlang and
> WxWidgets combined with my experience with Windows.Forms, TCL/Tk and
> others.  I have been able to find excellent documentation and examples
> easily for pretty much everything I have wanted or needed to do.  Not
> diminishing WxWidgets, but getting the layouts correct and working as
> desired has been faster and easier for me in every other GUI package
> I've used.  The others (for the most part) seemed more intuitive to me
> than the windows/panels etc. of wxWidgets.  And I have worked through
> what little I can find on the wxErlang, i.e.
> http://www.idiom.com/~turner/wxtut/wxwidgets.html
> http://wxerlang.dougedmunds.com/
>
> In the end, I think better documentation - not written for someone who
> already knows how to use either WxWidgets or wxErlang - would be a key
> improvement.
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> [hidden email]
> Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2017 08:04
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
>
> Hi,
> I have been using wxErlang on some projects and I don't find it too
> hard. I make the GUI in separate processes and communicate with the
> application using regular erlang message passing.
> Using the wx_object, it is practically a breeze. It is like
> programming a gen_server. I even run the GUI processes supervised, to
> allow me to "let it crash".
> Also, you can use wxFormBuilder to do the layout and use the generated
> PHP or LUA code to figure out what you need to do in wxErlang. I
> suppose you could even write a parser to generate your erlang code from
those.

> So I am curious. What is that you find so hard about it? And what
> makes it easier with C# or the like?
> Thanks
> Arif
>
>
> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 15:08:39 -0500
> From: "Alan Gingras" <[hidden email]>
> To: "'Alex S.'" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: 'Erlang' <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
> Message-ID: <002901d36ece$026702a0$073507e0$@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Thanks Alex.  I had thought of that but was trying to make this a pure
> Erlang application.  This is most likely the approach I will end up
> taking unless I decide to pursue wxErlang, but that is probably a little
unlikely.

>
>
> From: Alex S. [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 03:08
> To: Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>
> Cc: Erlang <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
>
> For what it's worth, you can always implement your view and controller
> in something like C#/F#, and your model in Erlang, and hook them up via
TCP.
> Alternatively, there was an Erlang-toF# compiler floating around I
believe.
>
>
> 2017-12-03 22:43 GMT+03:00 Alan Gingras <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]> >:
>
> Has anyone tried using Windows Forms (.net) with Erlang?  This would
> be in a similar fashion to way Python can use Windows Forms.  On Linux
> I believe this would be Mono
(http://www.mono-project.com/docs/gui/winforms/).

> Basically I think I?m looking for something similar to Python?s
> ?import? and C#?s ?using?
> features.  If no one has anything, any hints on how a feature like
> this might be implemented.
>
> Basically, I have been working on implementing genetic programming in
> Erlang and would like to provide a GUI front end.  The WxWidgets front
> end that comes with Erlang is difficult at best.  I?ve used several
> different GUI kits on *nix and Windows platforms but WxWidgets seems
> the most difficult for me.  So I?m trying to see what else is
> available.  I followed Joe Armstrong?s quest earlier this year and
> didn?t see where he came up with anything.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Alan
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Alan Gingras
In reply to this post by Leo Liu-2
Arif,

I have now worked my way through all of your wxerlang-getting-started document.  Again, I think it is terrific.  I did have to add a "startGame" function to actually start the "chess clock" in both flavors (gen_server and wx_object).  And I modified the handle_info function for 'reset' to start tell player 1 to move.  The startGame/1 method was:

startGame( N ) ->
        ?SERVER ! { reset, N }.

And the handle reset method is now:

handle_info({reset, N}, State) ->
        player1 ! {reset, N},
        player2 ! {reset, N},
        player1 ! move,
        {noreply, State};

And to get the clock going:

10> arbiter:start_link().
{ok, <0.207.0>}
11>arbiter:startGame( 10 ).
{reset,10}
12>
Or:
52> wo_arbiter:start_link ().
{wx_ref,35,wxFrame,<0.363.0>}
53> wo_arbiter: startGame( 10 ).
{reset,10}
54>

Thanks again for the tutorial.  I hope other find it as instructive as I did.

Sincerely yours,
Alan

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

arif-2
Hi,

I have written a follow up to the getting started piece.

It may not be enough to write your chart widgets, but I hope it gives
you some more insights into the workings of wxErlang.

https://arifishaq.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/wxerlang-speeding-up.pdf

Best regards
Arif
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Re: GUI development with Erlang

arif-2
In reply to this post by Alan Gingras
To answer a colleague, no, you don't _have_ to run the arbiter and the
player processes on different hosts. To go through the examples, you can
run them all on a single node, as long as it is a distributed node.
Of course the fun in atually playing a game is lost if the two players
are sitting on the same host :)
Best regards
Arif


Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2018 13:02:44 -0700
From: [hidden email]
To: Alan Gingras <[hidden email]>
Cc: 'Leo Liu' <[hidden email]>, [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] GUI development with Erlang
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hi,

I have written a follow up to the getting started piece.

It may not be enough to write your chart widgets, but I hope it gives
you some more insights into the workings of wxErlang.

https://arifishaq.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/wxerlang-speeding-up.pdf

Best regards
Arif

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Re: GUI development with Erlang

Joe Armstrong-2
In reply to this post by arif-2
Excellent - thanks a lot

.Joe

On Sun, Apr 15, 2018 at 10:02 PM,  <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I have written a follow up to the getting started piece.
>
> It may not be enough to write your chart widgets, but I hope it gives
> you some more insights into the workings of wxErlang.
>
> https://arifishaq.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/wxerlang-speeding-up.pdf
>
> Best regards
> Arif
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
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