Re: erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360, Issue 7

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Re: erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360, Issue 7

Valery Tikhonov
> 1. i would never pull a pre-built binary from a 3rd party into one of my
> projects. lol security?
> 2. that this project doesn't address rebar3/relx/hex at all means it is at
> odds with the direction the community has been pushing toward for several
> years now, and makes it relatively useless
1. You can't push any built package to the server. You can only ask server to go to github, pull the sources and build the package. Security is the same as you will clone and build github repository.
To gain better security - you can fork repo (that is why I use namespace/name in packages).
To gain even better security - you can start your own build server and mention it as repository in the client's config. Server is started with one command `docker-compose up -d` - quite simple.
2. As you can see - my client uses rebar/erlang.mk and can resolve links from hex. I can't say it is 100% compatible, but it even can build package from rebar project.
But the main reason of using python is - it has lots of plugins and modules. For now I use only Jinja2 templating in erlang configs, but theoretically we can use any plugin available in ansible.


2018-02-12 18:49 GMT+01:00 <[hidden email]>:
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re:  Coon - new tool for building Erlang packages, dependency
      management and deploying Erlang services (Valery Tikhonov)
   2. Re:  Coon - new tool for building Erlang packages, dependency
      management and deploying Erlang services (Jordan Chaitin)
   3. Re:  Coon - new tool for building Erlang packages, dependency
      management and deploying Erlang services (Tom Santero)
   4. Re:  erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360, Issue 5 (Onorio Catenacci)
   5. Re:  Coon - new tool for building Erlang packages,        dependency
      management and deploying Erlang services ([hidden email])
   6. Re:  erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360, Issue 5 (Roman Galeev)
   7. Re:  erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360, Issue 5
      (Karolis Petrauskas)
   8. Re:  Coon - new tool for building Erlang packages, dependency
      management and deploying Erlang services (Rick Pettit)
   9. Re:  erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360, Issue 5 (Alin Popa)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 16:59:50 +0100
From: Valery Tikhonov <[hidden email]>
To: Roman Galeev <[hidden email]>
Cc: Erlang <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Coon - new tool for building Erlang
        packages, dependency management and deploying Erlang services
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Frankly speaking, I've expected another type of questions, when writing
announcement.
Again - I selected name `coon` because `raccoon` was occupied. That's all.

Also I've always beleived that programmers are beyond the politics, sexism
and all kind of discriminations. So not using library, that can potentially
be useful is a little bit surprising for me.

It's a pity, that today I can't fully use language to express what I would
like to. But to make everyone happy, I will create a wrapper around coon
for those who don't like coon name itself.

P.S.: Just think - prohibiting words in the language will finally leave you
with empty vocabulary.



2018-02-12 16:25 GMT+01:00 Roman Galeev <[hidden email]>:

> > denigrate protected groups
>
> I'm quite sure you can use any given word for that.
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:22 PM, Lo?c Hoguin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> That's the thing about identity politics, it's not all offensive words
>> that are bad, it's only those that can be used to denigrate protected
>> groups (regardless of intent or how old or local the meaning is).
>>
>> On 02/12/2018 04:18 PM, Roman Galeev wrote:
>>
>>> Well, we have git already and nobody seems to be offended.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:11 PM, Chris Waymire <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     The idea that a software library that happens to share name with a
>>>     racial slur that is over 180 years old and has not been part of
>>>     common social use for several decades would make people angry is
>>>     ridiculous. Especially when the word as meanings that pre-date the
>>>     slur. If that upsets you to the point where you are unable to get
>>>     past it then it is time to unplug your tv, your radio and your
>>>     internet and live a life of peaceful solitude.
>>>
>>>     On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 7:03 AM, Lo?c Hoguin <[hidden email]
>>>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         This idea that white supremacists need a reason to call others
>>>         using racial slurs is ridiculous at best. At this rate you will
>>>         call me a Nazi by the next reply. Fingers crossed.
>>>
>>>         Again Valery does not apply this term to black people or make
>>>         any reference about them or the US History, so there's no intent
>>>         here. He's using the other meaning.
>>>
>>>         Soon you will argue that hunters are racists because they call
>>>         racoons "coons".
>>>
>>>
>>>         On 02/12/2018 03:53 PM, Josh Barney wrote:
>>>
>>>             Intent IS important and the intent of the people who applied
>>>             this term to black people was a very bad intent.
>>>
>>>             ?People are getting offended much too easily these days? ?
>>>             this argument has been plastered all over American news for
>>>             years, always coming from a privileged group claiming hurt.
>>>             This is the white supremesist position.
>>>
>>>
>>>             On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:34 AM Lo?c Hoguin
>>>             <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>                  This reminds me of people who were calling some coffee
>>>             brand racist not
>>>                  realizing that the Spanish or Portuguese translation
>>>             for "black"
>>>                  looks a
>>>                  lot like a racist slur.
>>>
>>>                  People are getting offended much too easily these days.
>>>             Intent is
>>>                  important and there's no intent to slur here.
>>>
>>>                  On 02/12/2018 03:15 PM, Josh Barney wrote:
>>>                   > One would presume that all the black persons who
>>>             have been called
>>>                  in an
>>>                   > effort to reduce them to rabid animals hunted for
>>>             sport by white men
>>>                   > with dogs would be aware. That?s the import thing
>>>             about racial
>>>                  slurs,
>>>                   > not that you are unhurt, but that someone else is
>>> hurt.
>>>                   >
>>>                   > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM Lo?c Hoguin
>>>             <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>                  wrote:
>>>                   >
>>>                   > More importantly, who is aware of them? I doubt too
>>>             many people
>>>                  outside
>>>                   > of North America know about it.
>>>                   >
>>>                   > And secondly, should you censor a word that's
>>>             otherwise perfectly
>>>                  fine
>>>                   > because of its use in slang? It'll get some radical
>>>             activists
>>>                  angry for
>>>                   > sure so it depends on whether you see this as a good
>>>             or a bad thing.
>>>                   > Nowadays that tends to be a good thing.
>>>                   >
>>>                   > Most people will not think twice about it.
>>>                   >
>>>                   > On 02/12/2018 02:17 PM, Fred Hebert wrote:
>>>                   > > Are you aware of the connotations coming with that
>>>             name?
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:05 PM, Valery Tikhonov
>>>                   > > <[hidden email]
>>>             <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>             <mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>>             <mailto:[hidden email]>>>
>>>                   > wrote:
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > Hi,
>>>                   > > I would like to introduce ?oon
>>>                  <https://github.com/comtihon/coon
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/coon>> -
>>>                   > > build and dependency management system and tool
>>>             for easy
>>>                  deployment
>>>                   > > Erlang packages.
>>>                   > > In short:
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > * coon uses prebuilt packages from CoonHub
>>>                   > > <https://coon.justtech.blog>, what reduces build
>>> time
>>>                   > > * thanks to github integration it allows to
>>>             trigger new builds for
>>>                   > > Erlang packages when commiting new tag in repo
>>>                   > > * you can set installation steps to deploy and run
>>>             Erlang service
>>>                   > > from prebuilt package on system without otp/Erlang
>>>             installed
>>>                   > > with `coon install namespace/name`
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > Documentation, articles and links:
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > coon (client) - https://github.com/comtihon/coon
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/coon>
>>>                   > > <https://github.com/comtihon/coon
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/coon>> see Readme.md and doc
>>> folder
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > coon_auto_builder (server) -
>>>                   > > https://github.com/comtihon/coon_auto_builder
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/coon_auto_builder>
>>>                   > > <https://github.com/comtihon/coon_auto_builder
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/coon_auto_builder>>
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > how to create and build Erlang service from scratch
>>>                   > >
>>>             https://justtech.blog/2018/01/07/create-erlang-service-with-
>>> coon/
>>>             <https://justtech.blog/2018/01/07/create-erlang-service-with
>>> -coon/>
>>>                   > >
>>>                             <https://justtech.blog/2018/01
>>> /07/create-erlang-service-with-coon/
>>>             <https://justtech.blog/2018/01/07/create-erlang-service-with
>>> -coon/>>
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > how to prepare Erlang service for deploy
>>>                   > >
>>>                   >
>>>             https://justtech.blog/2018/02/11/erlang-service-easy-deploy-
>>> with-coon/
>>>             <https://justtech.blog/2018/02/11/erlang-service-easy-deploy
>>> -with-coon/>
>>>                   > >
>>>                   >
>>>                             <https://justtech.blog/2018/02
>>> /11/erlang-service-easy-deploy-with-coon/
>>>             <https://justtech.blog/2018/02/11/erlang-service-easy-deploy
>>> -with-coon/>>
>>>
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > example service which uses coon
>>>                   > > https://github.com/comtihon/example_service
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/example_service>
>>>                   > > <https://github.com/comtihon/example_service
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/example_service>>
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > example library which uses coon
>>>                   > > https://github.com/comtihon/mongodb-erlang
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/mongodb-erlang>
>>>                   > > <https://github.com/comtihon/mongodb-erlang
>>>             <https://github.com/comtihon/mongodb-erlang>>
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > Hope you find this tool useful :)
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > _______________________________________________
>>>                   > > erlang-questions mailing list
>>>                   > > [hidden email]
>>>             <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>             <mailto:[hidden email]
>>>             <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>                   > >
>>>             http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>             <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions>
>>>                   > >
>>>             <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>             <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions>>
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > >
>>>                   > > _______________________________________________
>>>                   > > erlang-questions mailing list
>>>                   > > [hidden email]
>>>             <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>                   > >
>>>             http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>             <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions>
>>>                   > >
>>>                   >
>>>                   > --
>>>                   > Lo?c Hoguin
>>>                   > https://ninenines.eu
>>>                   > _______________________________________________
>>>                   > erlang-questions mailing list
>>>                   > [hidden email]
>>>             <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>                   > http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>             <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions>
>>>                   >
>>>
>>>                  --     Lo?c Hoguin
>>>             https://ninenines.eu
>>>
>>>
>>>         --         Lo?c Hoguin
>>>
>>>         https://ninenines.eu
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         erlang-questions mailing list
>>>         [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>         http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>         <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     erlang-questions mailing list
>>>     [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>>     http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>     <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> With best regards,
>>>       Roman Galeev,
>>>       <a href="tel:%2B420%20702%20817%20968" value="+420702817968">+420 702 817 968
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Lo?c Hoguin
>> https://ninenines.eu
>>
>
>
>
> --
> With best regards,
>      Roman Galeev,
>      <a href="tel:%2B420%20702%20817%20968" value="+420702817968">+420 702 817 968 <+420%20702%20817%20968>
>
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 22:28:19 +0530
From: Jordan Chaitin <[hidden email]>
To: Chris Waymire <[hidden email]>
Cc: Valery Tikhonov <[hidden email]>, Erlang
        <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Coon - new tool for building Erlang
        packages, dependency management and deploying Erlang services
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

Not being from North America, I am (was) unaware of the connotations surrounding coon.

But I?d like to share something related: while living in Europe, a friend wanted to set up a food stall and call it the SS Amsterdam. SS being the abbreviation for Sweets and Snacks, which is what the proposed stall would be selling. The name got shot down (on account of it reminding people of the Nazi SS) by everyone he presented to, including friends, colleagues, acquaintances, and investors. Ultimately he had to change the name. I won?t divulge whether or not he went ahead with a new name or dropped the whole thing. I thought the whole criticism was hypocritical and funny, because nobody seemed to have a problem with the SS Rotterdam, which is a popular former cruise ship and current hotel ship. Maybe it has to do with the fact that SS, as a naval abbreviation (for Steam Ship, or technically Steam Screw) predates the use by the Nazis, whereas the Nazis predate the hypothetical SS Amsterdam proposed by my friend. Going by that line of reasoning, Coon as a slur predates coon
  as a package manager, and hence takes precedence. Not that I agree with it. But it does seem to rile people up.

Cheers



> On Feb 12, 2018, at 20:41, Chris Waymire <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The idea that a software library that happens to share name with a racial slur that is over 180 years old and has not been part of common social use for several decades would make people angry is ridiculous. Especially when the word as meanings that pre-date the slur. If that upsets you to the point where you are unable to get past it then it is time to unplug your tv, your radio and your internet and live a life of peaceful solitude.
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 7:03 AM, Lo?c Hoguin <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This idea that white supremacists need a reason to call others using racial slurs is ridiculous at best. At this rate you will call me a Nazi by the next reply. Fingers crossed.
>
> Again Valery does not apply this term to black people or make any reference about them or the US History, so there's no intent here. He's using the other meaning.
>
> Soon you will argue that hunters are racists because they call racoons "coons".
>
>
> On 02/12/2018 03:53 PM, Josh Barney wrote:
> Intent IS important and the intent of the people who applied this term to black people was a very bad intent.
>
> ?People are getting offended much too easily these days? ? this argument has been plastered all over American news for years, always coming from a privileged group claiming hurt. This is the white supremesist position.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:34 AM Lo?c Hoguin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>     This reminds me of people who were calling some coffee brand racist not
>     realizing that the Spanish or Portuguese translation for "black"
>     looks a
>     lot like a racist slur.
>
>     People are getting offended much too easily these days. Intent is
>     important and there's no intent to slur here.
>
>     On 02/12/2018 03:15 PM, Josh Barney wrote:
>      > One would presume that all the black persons who have been called
>     in an
>      > effort to reduce them to rabid animals hunted for sport by white men
>      > with dogs would be aware. That?s the import thing about racial
>     slurs,
>      > not that you are unhurt, but that someone else is hurt.
>      >
>      > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:04 AM Lo?c Hoguin <[hidden email]>
>     wrote:
>      >
>      > More importantly, who is aware of them? I doubt too many people
>     outside
>      > of North America know about it.
>      >
>      > And secondly, should you censor a word that's otherwise perfectly
>     fine
>      > because of its use in slang? It'll get some radical activists
>     angry for
>      > sure so it depends on whether you see this as a good or a bad thing.
>      > Nowadays that tends to be a good thing.
>      >
>      > Most people will not think twice about it.
>      >
>      > On 02/12/2018 02:17 PM, Fred Hebert wrote:
>      > > Are you aware of the connotations coming with that name?
>      > >
>      > > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:05 PM, Valery Tikhonov
>      > > <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>      > wrote:
>      > >
>      > > Hi,
>      > > I would like to introduce ?oon
>     <https://github.com/comtihon/coon> -
>      > > build and dependency management system and tool for easy
>     deployment
>      > > Erlang packages.
>      > > In short:
>      > >
>      > > * coon uses prebuilt packages from CoonHub
>      > > <https://coon.justtech.blog>, what reduces build time
>      > > * thanks to github integration it allows to trigger new builds for
>      > > Erlang packages when commiting new tag in repo
>      > > * you can set installation steps to deploy and run Erlang service
>      > > from prebuilt package on system without otp/Erlang installed
>      > > with `coon install namespace/name`
>      > >
>      > > Documentation, articles and links:
>      > >
>      > > coon (client) - https://github.com/comtihon/coon
>      > > <https://github.com/comtihon/coon> see Readme.md and doc folder
>      > >
>      > > coon_auto_builder (server) -
>      > > https://github.com/comtihon/coon_auto_builder
>      > > <https://github.com/comtihon/coon_auto_builder>
>      > >
>      > > how to create and build Erlang service from scratch
>      > > https://justtech.blog/2018/01/07/create-erlang-service-with-coon/
>      > >
>     <https://justtech.blog/2018/01/07/create-erlang-service-with-coon/>
>      > >
>      > > how to prepare Erlang service for deploy
>      > >
>      >
>     https://justtech.blog/2018/02/11/erlang-service-easy-deploy-with-coon/
>      > >
>      >
>     <https://justtech.blog/2018/02/11/erlang-service-easy-deploy-with-coon/>
>
>      > >
>      > > example service which uses coon
>      > > https://github.com/comtihon/example_service
>      > > <https://github.com/comtihon/example_service>
>      > >
>      > > example library which uses coon
>      > > https://github.com/comtihon/mongodb-erlang
>      > > <https://github.com/comtihon/mongodb-erlang>
>      > >
>      > > Hope you find this tool useful :)
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > > _______________________________________________
>      > > erlang-questions mailing list
>      > > [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>      > > http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>      > > <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions>
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > >
>      > > _______________________________________________
>      > > erlang-questions mailing list
>      > > [hidden email]
>      > > http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>      > >
>      >
>      > --
>      > Lo?c Hoguin
>      > https://ninenines.eu
>      > _______________________________________________
>      > erlang-questions mailing list
>      > [hidden email]
>      > http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>      >
>
>     --     Lo?c Hoguin
>     https://ninenines.eu
>
>
> --
> Lo?c Hoguin
>
> https://ninenines.eu
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 12:10:20 -0500
From: Tom Santero <[hidden email]>
To: Jesper Louis Andersen <[hidden email]>
Cc: Erlang <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Coon - new tool for building Erlang
        packages, dependency management and deploying Erlang services
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Putting the project's name aside for a moment, there are two things I'd
like to point about:

1. i would never pull a pre-built binary from a 3rd party into one of my
projects. lol security?
2. that this project doesn't address rebar3/relx/hex at all means it is at
odds with the direction the community has been pushing toward for several
years now, and makes it relatively useless

That said, the name: anyone in North America who reads this immediately
thinks of the racist slur, despite intent or cultural differences. if
you're an adult in 2018 and can't comprehend that being offended by
something and that thing being objectively offensive aren't mutually
exclusive then...well I'd suggest you take a good long time to reevaluate
everything you've done with your life up until today.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 12:01 PM, Jesper Louis Andersen <
[hidden email]> wrote:

> There is also "Maine Coon", which is a cat breed.
>
> Personally, I'd do two things:
>
> 1. I'm interested in the etymology of the word in
> Russian/Ukrainian/Belarussian etc and why that name was chosen in the first
> place.
> 2. I'd probably change the name. There is a well known proof assistant
> named "Coq" (french for "Rooster"). Apart from snickers and giggles, one
> has to make the case that a certain amount of internationality is to be
> expected of library names. It simply creates more trouble than it solves.
>
> Of course, the balance is that an innocent western name might really upset
> the asian population in a major asian country (China, India, Japan, ...),
> and few people care about this. It is just that Americans tend to
> self-immolate as soon as you mention their past.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 5:52 PM Chris Duesing <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> I can't believe this "discussion" is happening. Coon is a racial slur,
>> there is no other use of the word. The fact that a bunch of white Europeans
>> are pointing out that the dozen people involved in this thread aren't
>> offended simply shows the lack of diversity in the mailing list. The "oh
>> I'm butthurt because other people get offended by things" is fucking
>> ridiculous. It is a racial slur, period. If this isn't a library only
>> intended to be used by racist fucks then rename it.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 10:28 AM, nx <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> For what it's worth, the first thing I thought of when I saw the title
>>> of this thread was "that is a racist slur". I've also never heard anyone
>>> call a raccoon a coon.
>>>
>>> The news that cowboy was named for "cowboys kill apaches" is
>>> disappointing.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:22 AM Fred Hebert <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What I'm saying is that it does not matter how I interpret things. I
>>>> asked and the author said publicly it was a raccoon. I'm okay with that
>>>> explanation and I'm ready to believe it.
>>>>
>>>> My point is that other people won't ask the author, won't know who he
>>>> is, and will pick an interpretation and stick with it. They won't need the
>>>> context, they won't need anything. They'll just do it. The name can be
>>>> interpreted in a racist way, and so it's pretty much guaranteed that it
>>>> will be eventually interpreted that way. The author is free to go ahead and
>>>> keep the name, and the users and onlookers will be free to read whatever
>>>> they want in that name.
>>>>
>>>> That is 100% my point.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:17 AM, Krzysztof Jurewicz <
>>>> [hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Fred Hebert writes:
>>>>>
>>>>> > Anyone is of course free to name their software whatever they want.
>>>>> Picking
>>>>> > a racist name is however never going to be consequences-free as this
>>>>> e-mail
>>>>> > thread first shows on the first day of release, and adoption figures
>>>>> may
>>>>> > also reflect it.
>>>>>
>>>>> Merriam-Webster online dictionary (naming itself as ?America?s
>>>>> most-trusted online dictionary?) says that there two meanings of ?coon?:
>>>>>
>>>>> ? raccoon;
>>>>> ? offensive ? used as an insulting and contemptuous term for a black
>>>>> person.
>>>>>
>>>>> I presume that context matters. What makes you think that in this
>>>>> context this word means ?? Wikipedia in the article about raccoon says that
>>>>> is also known coloquially as ?coon?, so I guess this is not a very uncommon
>>>>> usage.
>>>>>
>>>>> Or are you saying that non-racist usages of words that have also
>>>>> racist meanings should be eventually abandoned?
>>>>>
>>>>> (I?m not a native speaker, so bear with my eventual ignorance).
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> erlang-questions mailing list
>>>> [hidden email]
>>>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> erlang-questions mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
>
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Message: 4
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 12:22:46 -0500
From: Onorio Catenacci <[hidden email]>
To: erlang-questions <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360,
        Issue 5
Message-ID:
        <CAP=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

A few thoughts:

1.) As a native speaker of American English, trust me the word "coon" is
extremely offensive.  I'm not trying to be hyperbolic but it's my
impression that to African-Americans this word is almost as offensive as
the N word is. I'm not a SJW and I'm not politically correct. I simply
don't have any good reason to likely offend people when a less offensive
term (like "Racoon") is easily available to use.  If you don't speak
American English natively, trust me this is not a case of someone being
hypersensitive.  It's a very offensive word.

2.) It looks like Valery simply decide to build Rebar3/Hex/Mix etc. with
Python.  That's perfectly fine.  I'm not seeing anything much on there
other than "we decided to rebuild rebar3 with python" and "we're going to
build packages to work with our new build system" but it doesn't look as if
they have yet.

3.) I also agree with Fred and others who say that all this discussion on
the subtleties of political correctness and freedom of expression will get
lost outside of this mailing list.  All this would do is give a black eye
to the Erlang community and convince people who don't know any better than
some segment of developers who use Erlang are racists.  Fair or not that's
what will happen. Of course who ever said life is fair?

I wish I had a better grasp of the native language of some folks on this
list so I could express how offensive this particular word is to people who
speak American English.  Maybe if I said to Valery I were going to build a
library named " ???" that might give some idea of how loaded with negative
meaning the word "Coon" is in English. The fact that lots of Russian folks
might find that particular phrase offensive--well they need to stop being
so sensitive right?

If you want to continue with this library, please simply change the name to
"Racoon." This is not about offending or not offending anyone.  Its about
giving people the wrong impression by picking a name with a negative
meaning in American English. Or if you insist on using "Coon" then use the
word in whatever your native language is for "Racoon".

I'll put it this way: I wouldn't name a library "Bitch".  Yes, it refers to
a female dog.  But it's more commonly used as an offensive way to describe
a female that one doesn't like.

I also wouldn't name a library "Ass". That word can refer to a donkey but
it's so overwhelmingly identified with a pejorative slang term that native
speakers wouldn't think "donkey"--they'd think the other thing.

--
Onorio Catenacci

http://onor.io
http://www.google.com/+OnorioCatenacci
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Message: 5
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2018 02:28:47 +0900
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Coon - new tool for building Erlang
        packages,       dependency management and deploying Erlang services
Message-ID: <2713817.h8SfDXM89s@takoyaki>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

On 2018?2?12???? 12?10?20? JST Tom Santero wrote:
> Putting the project's name aside for a moment, there are two things I'd
> like to point about:

THANK YOU

> 1. i would never pull a pre-built binary from a 3rd party into one of my
> projects. lol security?

I disagree, in that we are right back in "trusting trust" territory. I prefer building from source (for a number of reasons) but source or not, for nearly everyone (perhaps actually everyone) who builds a project that involves external dependencies, the security is only as strong as the signature on the code received (and implicitly, the trust of the signature scheme employed) and the trust of the review process which granted the signature.

Both are greviously lacking in using direct-from-github packages (whether source or pre-built) as repository inputs.

> 2. that this project doesn't address rebar3/relx/hex at all means it is at
> odds with the direction the community has been pushing toward for several
> years now, and makes it relatively useless

I disagree again. In this era we have full-blown systems to drive; the common case today is NOT to deploy to a resource-strapped or custom-built piece of hardware that can never be accessed by system administrators. The common environment today is more like a (to use an awful term) "devops" environment where people want things to rebuild in the lightest possible way and "just go". Which is to say, people desperately wish that Erlang (not to mention Elixir) code could be more commonly built and run the way Python projects that use virtualenv can be.

I think the to-date direction of the Erlang community de facto practices is a bit dated, being built around the ancient and original assumption "everything has to be an Erlang distribution".

-Craig


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 18:39:14 +0100
From: Roman Galeev <[hidden email]>
To: Onorio Catenacci <[hidden email]>
Cc: erlang-questions <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360,
        Issue 5
Message-ID:
        <CANJ6ymbe=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

> how offensive this particular word is to people who speak American
English.

There are offensive words in Russian, and they even form a sublanguage
named 'mat'. But you can't find something like this http://coonlabs.com/
<https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Fcoonlabs.com%2F/GEcpm9pL4x4ePNgwJw0H>
with any of such words, this is simply not possible.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Onorio Catenacci <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> A few thoughts:
>
> 1.) As a native speaker of American English, trust me the word "coon" is
> extremely offensive.  I'm not trying to be hyperbolic but it's my
> impression that to African-Americans this word is almost as offensive as
> the N word is. I'm not a SJW and I'm not politically correct. I simply
> don't have any good reason to likely offend people when a less offensive
> term (like "Racoon") is easily available to use.  If you don't speak
> American English natively, trust me this is not a case of someone being
> hypersensitive.  It's a very offensive word.
>
> 2.) It looks like Valery simply decide to build Rebar3/Hex/Mix etc. with
> Python.  That's perfectly fine.  I'm not seeing anything much on there
> other than "we decided to rebuild rebar3 with python" and "we're going to
> build packages to work with our new build system" but it doesn't look as if
> they have yet.
>
> 3.) I also agree with Fred and others who say that all this discussion on
> the subtleties of political correctness and freedom of expression will get
> lost outside of this mailing list.  All this would do is give a black eye
> to the Erlang community and convince people who don't know any better than
> some segment of developers who use Erlang are racists.  Fair or not that's
> what will happen. Of course who ever said life is fair?
>
> I wish I had a better grasp of the native language of some folks on this
> list so I could express how offensive this particular word is to people who
> speak American English.  Maybe if I said to Valery I were going to build a
> library named " ???" that might give some idea of how loaded with
> negative meaning the word "Coon" is in English. The fact that lots of
> Russian folks might find that particular phrase offensive--well they need
> to stop being so sensitive right?
>
> If you want to continue with this library, please simply change the name
> to "Racoon." This is not about offending or not offending anyone.  Its
> about giving people the wrong impression by picking a name with a negative
> meaning in American English. Or if you insist on using "Coon" then use the
> word in whatever your native language is for "Racoon".
>
> I'll put it this way: I wouldn't name a library "Bitch".  Yes, it refers
> to a female dog.  But it's more commonly used as an offensive way to
> describe a female that one doesn't like.
>
> I also wouldn't name a library "Ass". That word can refer to a donkey but
> it's so overwhelmingly identified with a pejorative slang term that native
> speakers wouldn't think "donkey"--they'd think the other thing.
>
> --
> Onorio Catenacci
>
> http://onor.io
> http://www.google.com/+OnorioCatenacci
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
>


--
With best regards,
     Roman Galeev,
     +420 702 817 968
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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 19:47:05 +0200
From: Karolis Petrauskas <[hidden email]>
To: Roman Galeev <[hidden email]>
Cc: Onorio Catenacci <[hidden email]>, erlang-questions
        <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360,
        Issue 5
Message-ID:
        <CAFteovL6bJc6x=[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Here you go: https://kurvasoft.com/

Karolis

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 7:39 PM, Roman Galeev <[hidden email]> wrote:

> > how offensive this particular word is to people who speak American
> English.
>
> There are offensive words in Russian, and they even form a sublanguage
> named 'mat'. But you can't find something like this http://coonlabs.com/
> <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Fcoonlabs.com%2F/GEcpm9pL4x4ePNgwJw0H>
> with any of such words, this is simply not possible.
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Onorio Catenacci <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> A few thoughts:
>>
>> 1.) As a native speaker of American English, trust me the word "coon" is
>> extremely offensive.  I'm not trying to be hyperbolic but it's my
>> impression that to African-Americans this word is almost as offensive as
>> the N word is. I'm not a SJW and I'm not politically correct. I simply
>> don't have any good reason to likely offend people when a less offensive
>> term (like "Racoon") is easily available to use.  If you don't speak
>> American English natively, trust me this is not a case of someone being
>> hypersensitive.  It's a very offensive word.
>>
>> 2.) It looks like Valery simply decide to build Rebar3/Hex/Mix etc. with
>> Python.  That's perfectly fine.  I'm not seeing anything much on there
>> other than "we decided to rebuild rebar3 with python" and "we're going to
>> build packages to work with our new build system" but it doesn't look as if
>> they have yet.
>>
>> 3.) I also agree with Fred and others who say that all this discussion on
>> the subtleties of political correctness and freedom of expression will get
>> lost outside of this mailing list.  All this would do is give a black eye
>> to the Erlang community and convince people who don't know any better than
>> some segment of developers who use Erlang are racists.  Fair or not that's
>> what will happen. Of course who ever said life is fair?
>>
>> I wish I had a better grasp of the native language of some folks on this
>> list so I could express how offensive this particular word is to people who
>> speak American English.  Maybe if I said to Valery I were going to build a
>> library named " ???" that might give some idea of how loaded with
>> negative meaning the word "Coon" is in English. The fact that lots of
>> Russian folks might find that particular phrase offensive--well they need
>> to stop being so sensitive right?
>>
>> If you want to continue with this library, please simply change the name
>> to "Racoon." This is not about offending or not offending anyone.  Its
>> about giving people the wrong impression by picking a name with a negative
>> meaning in American English. Or if you insist on using "Coon" then use the
>> word in whatever your native language is for "Racoon".
>>
>> I'll put it this way: I wouldn't name a library "Bitch".  Yes, it refers
>> to a female dog.  But it's more commonly used as an offensive way to
>> describe a female that one doesn't like.
>>
>> I also wouldn't name a library "Ass". That word can refer to a donkey but
>> it's so overwhelmingly identified with a pejorative slang term that native
>> speakers wouldn't think "donkey"--they'd think the other thing.
>>
>> --
>> Onorio Catenacci
>>
>> http://onor.io
>> http://www.google.com/+OnorioCatenacci
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> With best regards,
>      Roman Galeev,
>      +420 702 817 968 <+420%20702%20817%20968>
>
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
>
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 11:47:26 -0600
From: Rick Pettit <[hidden email]>
To: Lo?c Hoguin <[hidden email]>
Cc: Valery Tikhonov <[hidden email]>, Vance Shipley
        <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] Coon - new tool for building Erlang
        packages, dependency management and deploying Erlang services
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain;       charset=utf-8

As someone who lives in North America, I wouldn?t be terribly excited about the idea of advocating for a piece of software with such a controversial name, to put it mildly.

I have no doubt it would take more work defending the software and explaining the name than it would be to write my own package manager.

I also cannot imagine what a ?hero? some of my coworkers (many of which I consider to be close friends) would consider me to be, enabling folks to casually throw out what many know to be a racial slur around the office without fear of consequences.

Of course I could always throw the ?intent? argument out there, which would no doubt immediately clear up the optics and melt away all the negative feelings...

Boy this better be one hell of a package manager to be worth all that trouble.

-Rick

> On Feb 12, 2018, at 8:04 AM, Lo?c Hoguin <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> More importantly, who is aware of them? I doubt too many people outside of North America know about it.
>
> And secondly, should you censor a word that's otherwise perfectly fine because of its use in slang? It'll get some radical activists angry for sure so it depends on whether you see this as a good or a bad thing. Nowadays that tends to be a good thing.
>
> Most people will not think twice about it.
>
> On 02/12/2018 02:17 PM, Fred Hebert wrote:
>> Are you aware of the connotations coming with that name?
>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:05 PM, Valery Tikhonov <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>    Hi,
>>    I would like to introduce ?oon <https://github.com/comtihon/coon> -
>>    build and dependency management system and tool for easy deployment
>>    Erlang packages.
>>    In short:
>>      * coon uses prebuilt packages from CoonHub
>>        <https://coon.justtech.blog>, what reduces build time
>>      * thanks to github integration it allows to trigger new builds for
>>        Erlang packages when commiting new tag in repo
>>      * you can set installation steps to deploy and run Erlang service
>>        from prebuilt package on system without otp/Erlang installed
>>        with `coon install namespace/name`
>>    Documentation, articles and links:
>>    coon (client) - https://github.com/comtihon/coon
>>    <https://github.com/comtihon/coon> see Readme.md and doc folder
>>    coon_auto_builder (server) -
>>    https://github.com/comtihon/coon_auto_builder
>>    <https://github.com/comtihon/coon_auto_builder>
>>    how to create and build Erlang service from scratch
>>    https://justtech.blog/2018/01/07/create-erlang-service-with-coon/
>>    <https://justtech.blog/2018/01/07/create-erlang-service-with-coon/>
>>    how to prepare Erlang service for deploy
>>    https://justtech.blog/2018/02/11/erlang-service-easy-deploy-with-coon/
>>    <https://justtech.blog/2018/02/11/erlang-service-easy-deploy-with-coon/>
>>    example service which uses coon
>>    https://github.com/comtihon/example_service
>>    <https://github.com/comtihon/example_service>
>>    example library which uses coon
>>    https://github.com/comtihon/mongodb-erlang
>>    <https://github.com/comtihon/mongodb-erlang>
>>    Hope you find this tool useful :)
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    erlang-questions mailing list
>>    [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>>    http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>    <http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions>
>> _______________________________________________
>> erlang-questions mailing list
>> [hidden email]
>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
> --
> Lo?c Hoguin
> https://ninenines.eu
> _______________________________________________
> erlang-questions mailing list
> [hidden email]
> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>
>
> ----------
>
> This email has been scanned for spam and viruses by Proofpoint Essentials. Visit the following link to report this email as spam:
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------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 17:49:03 +0000
From: Alin Popa <[hidden email]>
To: Karolis Petrauskas <[hidden email]>
Cc: Onorio Catenacci <[hidden email]>, erlang-questions
        <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [erlang-questions] erlang-questions Digest, Vol 360,
        Issue 5
Message-ID:
        <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I guess that this guy needs to change his name to Josh Racoon now:
http://coonlabs.com/about/team/josh-coon/

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Karolis Petrauskas <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Here you go: https://kurvasoft.com/
>
> Karolis
>
> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 7:39 PM, Roman Galeev <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> > how offensive this particular word is to people who speak American
>> English.
>>
>> There are offensive words in Russian, and they even form a sublanguage
>> named 'mat'. But you can't find something like this http://coonlabs.com/
>> <https://mltrk.io/link/http%3A%2F%2Fcoonlabs.com%2F/GEcpm9pL4x4ePNgwJw0H>
>> with any of such words, this is simply not possible.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:22 PM, Onorio Catenacci <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> A few thoughts:
>>>
>>> 1.) As a native speaker of American English, trust me the word "coon" is
>>> extremely offensive.  I'm not trying to be hyperbolic but it's my
>>> impression that to African-Americans this word is almost as offensive as
>>> the N word is. I'm not a SJW and I'm not politically correct. I simply
>>> don't have any good reason to likely offend people when a less offensive
>>> term (like "Racoon") is easily available to use.  If you don't speak
>>> American English natively, trust me this is not a case of someone being
>>> hypersensitive.  It's a very offensive word.
>>>
>>> 2.) It looks like Valery simply decide to build Rebar3/Hex/Mix etc. with
>>> Python.  That's perfectly fine.  I'm not seeing anything much on there
>>> other than "we decided to rebuild rebar3 with python" and "we're going to
>>> build packages to work with our new build system" but it doesn't look as if
>>> they have yet.
>>>
>>> 3.) I also agree with Fred and others who say that all this discussion
>>> on the subtleties of political correctness and freedom of expression will
>>> get lost outside of this mailing list.  All this would do is give a black
>>> eye to the Erlang community and convince people who don't know any better
>>> than some segment of developers who use Erlang are racists.  Fair or not
>>> that's what will happen. Of course who ever said life is fair?
>>>
>>> I wish I had a better grasp of the native language of some folks on this
>>> list so I could express how offensive this particular word is to people who
>>> speak American English.  Maybe if I said to Valery I were going to build a
>>> library named " ???" that might give some idea of how loaded with
>>> negative meaning the word "Coon" is in English. The fact that lots of
>>> Russian folks might find that particular phrase offensive--well they need
>>> to stop being so sensitive right?
>>>
>>> If you want to continue with this library, please simply change the name
>>> to "Racoon." This is not about offending or not offending anyone.  Its
>>> about giving people the wrong impression by picking a name with a negative
>>> meaning in American English. Or if you insist on using "Coon" then use the
>>> word in whatever your native language is for "Racoon".
>>>
>>> I'll put it this way: I wouldn't name a library "Bitch".  Yes, it refers
>>> to a female dog.  But it's more commonly used as an offensive way to
>>> describe a female that one doesn't like.
>>>
>>> I also wouldn't name a library "Ass". That word can refer to a donkey
>>> but it's so overwhelmingly identified with a pejorative slang term that
>>> native speakers wouldn't think "donkey"--they'd think the other thing.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Onorio Catenacci
>>>
>>> http://onor.io
>>> http://www.google.com/+OnorioCatenacci
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> erlang-questions mailing list
>>> [hidden email]
>>> http://erlang.org/mailman/listinfo/erlang-questions
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> With best regards,
>>      Roman Galeev,
>>      +420 702 817 968 <+420%20702%20817%20968>
>>
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